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Swap Arbitrage


TheEconomist

734.600 citiri

First of all, for who doesn't know what swaps are, they are implementation of differential interest rates. We aren't going to present here the implementation of swaps starting from the differentials, but the purpose of the article is to show how the swaps may be used to make money with a small amount of risk.

 

Swap Arbitrage, as a hedging for interest technique, is another application of Kreslik currency rings: this time there is no need for FPI calculation or generation of virtuals. All it matters is that the currency ring to be correctly placed, and to generate interest by its simple existence. I called it "Swap Arbitrage", because, if we cut out the forex impact, which is usually fixed due to hedging, it's like buying lower and selling higher swaps. The tinier the results, the more risky Swap Arbitrage is, because the swaps need longer time to recover spread loss, time in which fundamental events may alter the interest rates.

 

 

1. Generating all the possible versions of available Kreslik rings on a broker

======================================================

 

In my previous article about the Intercross Arbitrage I covered some BcLib functions helpful in reading MetaTrader content. The first function that needs to be called is GetSymbolsAppendix() to retrieve the symbols appendix, then the GetCurrenciesAndPairs() to get available currencies and pairs. The think pattern of this strategy is the one from Triangular or N-angular Arbitrage. We suppose that we have funds denominated in a currency, that we sell for the next proposed one, and so on, until the ring is completed. This would be hard to implement if we'd use directly the pairs. So we start using the currency list available in UsedCurrencies[] . Suppose we have n currencies (in fact, CurrenciesNo). Every one of them may be , or be not, in a currency ring. Thus we have 2^n combinations. Of course the 2^n include invalid rings, such as 0 , which includes no currency, and others with one or two currencies inside. These are sent to scrapyard and we focus on almost valid currency rings with at least three currencies. I said almost because at the time of their generation we don't know that the pairs to link up the currencies exist for real. Generation is simple, by using a simple cycle from 0 to (2^n)-1 and converting the number to binary, then completing the result with leading zeros. Say for example UsedCurrencies[] has EUR, USD, GBP, JPY and CHF (only these five). Then for example 13 would be translated to binary as 1101, completed with leading zeros to 01101 (to be five digits length), and then we can read the what the 1s mean: USD, GBP and CHF. Once that we have this combination, we could then permutate it to generate the same ring from all possible directions. Then we test each resulted ring for validity (if all pairs exist (of course, if the ring has three currencies, a test on original combination is enough, if it has more, there must be a test on each permuted combination). Once valid, we calculate the overall swap, and, if posible, we keep its combination and permutation numbers on hand (I couldn't generate arrangements, nor combinations directly ; arrangements are nothing more than permuted combinations). After studying all possible combinations or only some of them (say only 3-currency rings) we may have already a best ring, which is the maximum that can be got in given conditions. If there is no best ring, swap arbitrage is impossible.

 

Powerful BcLib functions to achieve this:

 

string ConvertTo(int base,int number)

The function converts the number in given base. It's reverse function is int ReconvertFrom(int base,string number) that converts back to base 10.

 

string Padl(string s,int total,string fillwith)

The function fills string <s> with <fillwith> strings (intended to be chars) to fill up the total length; similar functions: Padr and Padc. These functions originate from FoxPro.

 

void GenPermutation(int n,int elem,int &perm[])

Generates the permutation <n> (0 - based) of <elem> elements inside array perm. Array will contain numbers from 1 to n.

The opposite of this function is int FindPermutation(int elem,int perm[]) , which will return given's permutation index.

 

bool ContractExists(string symbol)

Returns true if given symbol exists in the datafeed. It's runtime based, doesn't look up the UsedPairs[] as it can be used for any symbol, not only forex pairs.

 

bool ContractIsTraded(string symbol)

This is an older function, written by me before I realised MarketInfo(...,MODE_TRADEALLOWED) is available. Now the function will ultimately return MODE_TRADEALLOWED inquiry, however this aspect is a bit controversial, although MODE_TRADEALLOWED inquiry may return False when trade context is busy, so when the contract is really traded.

 

This is a code excerpt from the SwapFinder (one of the first implementations of this algorithm):

 

for (icomb=maxim;icomb>=0;icomb--)
 {
 image=Padl(ConvertTo(2,icomb),CurrenciesNo,"0");
 crrcies=Occurs("1",image);
 valid=false; 
 if (crrcies>=3&&crrcies<=maxcrrcies)
	{		 
	maxperm=Factorial(crrcies)-1;
	combimg="";
	for (iimg=0;iimg<CurrenciesNo;iimg++)
	   {
	   if (StringElement(image,iimg)=="1")
		   combimg=StringConcatenate(combimg,UsableCurrencies[iimg]," ");
	   }	   
   WriteLn(StringConcatenate("Studying ",combimg," having ",DoubleToStr(maxperm+1,0)," permutations"));
   for (iperm=0;iperm<=maxperm;iperm++)
	   {
	   ROA=-1;
	   ROE=-1;
	   valid=IsConfigValid(image,iperm,crrcies,Contracts,Ops);
	   if (valid==True)
		  {
		  EstablishRing(crrcies,Contracts,Ops,Volumes,Usage,TotalUsed,Swaps,Interests,NormalROA,WeightedROA,ROA,ROE,FXResult,FinalROE,False);

 

 

As you see, the code is not complete, as none of the for cycles is completed; See how <image> is made up by ConvertTo() and Padl() , number of currencies is counted in <crrcies>, then currencies are extracted in the <iimg> cycle (only to be displayed), then permutations are being generated inside the <iperm> cycle, upon validation by IsConfigValid() function, and finally ring is being constructed by the EstablishRing procedure.

 

2. The mysterious realm of the swaps

============================

 

The swaps implementation in MetaTrader was always a mystery: the OrderSwap() function works ex-post, it retrieves the total interest cashed/payed on a order. The only way of knowing before is by using MarketInfo's MODE_SWAPLONG and MODE_SWAPSHORT. However, what it gives is a mysterious "swap". Is it an interest rate ? NO. Is it an interest ? NO. Ok. Enough fooling around with "Let's twist again". Let's see what it really is.

First of all, the result meaning is given by MODE_SWAPTYPE inquiry:

 

MODE_SWAPTYPE inquiry answer : 0

Metaquotes documentation : in points;

BcLib coverage: Yes;

Meaning: In pips;

Behaviour: the most stable ever seen;

Broker examples: ATC Brokers, Finex, FXLQ

==============================================

MODE_SWAPTYPE inquiry answer : 1

Metaquotes documentation : In the symbol base currency

BcLib coverage: No*

Meaning: In the first currency of the pair

Behaviour: Unknown,

but probably jumpy due to needed conversion in that currency

Broker examples: FXLQ recently (yes they have them different)

==============================================

MODE_SWAPTYPE inquiry answer : 2

Metaquotes documentation : by interest

BcLib coverage: No

Meaning: Unknown

Behaviour: Unknown

Broker examples: Never reported in wild

==============================================

MODE_SWAPTYPE inquiry answer : 3

Metaquotes documentation : In the margin currency

BcLib coverage: Yes

Meaning: In pips of the account currency

Behaviour: Very unstable

Broker examples: InterbankFX, FXDD

==============================================

 

The Swap2Interest_Volume from BcLib converts the swap to interest on a given volume (not lot). Useful when building swap strategies because you can find the actual swap before it would come.

 

*Not in the last version of BcLib. Find and replace the Swap2Interest_Volume function with the next body for this swap type to be included:

 

double Swap2Interest_Volume(double volume,int swapmode,string contract,string appendix)
 {  
 double m_tick;
 double m_lotsize;
 double swap;
 double gc;
 double res;
 if (PairsNo==0)
GetCurrenciesAndPairs(appendix);
 string contractf=StringConcatenate(contract,appendix);
 int swt=MarketInfo(contractf,MODE_SWAPTYPE);
 if (swt!=0&&swt!=1&&swt!=3)
{
 if (BcLibAlerts==True)
	Alert("Swap2Interest***** : swap type "+DoubleToStr(swt,0)+" not implemented !");
 return(0);
}
 if (swapmode==MODE_SWAPLONG||swapmode==OP_BUY||swapmode==OP_BUYLIMIT||swapmode==OP_BUYSTOP)
 swap=MarketInfo(contractf,MODE_SWAPLONG);
 else
 swap=MarketInfo(contractf,MODE_SWAPSHORT);
 if (swt==0)
{
 m_tick=MarketInfo(contractf,MODE_TICKVALUE);
 m_lotsize=MarketInfo(contractf,MODE_LOTSIZE);
 return(swap*m_tick*(volume/m_lotsize));	 
}
 if (swt==1)
{
 m_lotsize=MarketInfo(contractf,MODE_LOTSIZE);  
 gc=GetCurrency(StringSubstr(contractf,0,3),AccountCurrency(),appendix);
 res=swap*gc*(volume/m_lotsize);
 if (gc==0)
   {
   if (BcLibAlerts==True)
	 Alert("Swap2Interest***** : could not convert swap type 1 for "+contractf+" as GetCurrency() failed! Check contract and appendix!");	 
   }
 return(res);
}
 if (swt==3)
{
 m_lotsize=MarketInfo(contractf,MODE_LOTSIZE);	 
 return((volume*swap)/m_lotsize);	 
}
 }

 

 

You can easily see in the code how the swap types were implemented:

 

Type 0: swap*m_tick*(volume/m_lotsize)

 

Type 1: swap*gc*(volume/m_lotsize), where gc is the first currency of the pair converted to account currency

 

Type 3: (volume*swap)/m_lotsize , similar to type 0 but without multiplicating with the tick value;

 

Picture of the SwapFinder_script running on ATC Brokers:

 

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2171/pictureofswapfinderscricm4.jpg

 

SwapFinder parameters:

 

extern int MarginUsage=90;

extern int MaxCurrenciesUsed=3;

extern bool JustTesting=False;

extern int Slippage=3;

extern bool ShowNegatives=False;

 

MarginUsage - the percent of the margin (or the leverage) that's used for the trades altogether;

MaxCurrenciesUsed - for 0, scans all the combinations (from 3 to n) currencies; for another value, scans combinations having from 3 to that value;

JustTesting - is a safety measure; it will trade only when the script is allowed to trade from the properties and JustTesting is set to True;

Slippage - trading slippage admitted;

ShowNegatives - if true, will display financial data gathered on negative swap rings too.

 

Again, be cautious about the MarginUsage. Don't set it too to near 100%, as your effective margin during initiation of trades might get under the required margin and you would run out of funds before completion of trades. Also, be careful that in dangerous situations broker's datafeed may be damaged (the problem I've been talking on the Intercross Arbitrage article) and you won't be fully hedged, your trades being placed in profit/loss territory until the issue being solved.

 

How to read the SwapFinder window

 

Usage - the volume , in account currency , of the trade. Under the usages there is their sum, interpreted as Total Assets

% - the weight of the trade volume in total traded. The trades must be hedged, so the % value must be almost the same at them all equal to (1/no. of trades)*100

Op. - trade direction

Volume - the volume of the trade, in units of the first currency of the pair

Lots - the volume, in lots

Contract - the pair symbol

Swap - the exact swaps for one lot, as answered by MODE_SWAPLONG and MODE_SWAPSHORT inquiries

Interest - the real interest earned/payed on the trade

NormalROA - the ROA (Return on Assets) of the trade as (Interest/Usage * 100) * 365 (later edited)

WeightedROA - the Normal ROA as weighted (by the percent occupied in Total Assets)

 

ROA is the sum of Weighted ROAs.

ROE (Return on Equity) calculated as ((ROA * Total Assets) / Account Equity) * 100

 

Forex result = costs of spreads

 

Final ROE = ROE - Forex result

 

 

3. Butterfly : a nonlinear hedge

=======================

 

Some time ago, as I was playing with pencil on paper drawing currency rings and trying to imagine a different kind of hedge that could make more swaps, I came up with the idea of a butterfly hedge ( because two currency rings with a common currency (common tip) look like the wings of a butterfly). However, two completed currency rings, with or without a common tip, are independant rings. They cannot produce more swaps, as one would be , say the best ring, and the other one, a lesser ring. However, this measure could add more safety to swap arbitrage, as it produces a slight diversification of the "investments" (the two currency rings). If we link up N currencies we obtain a simple , linear , currency ring, where EVERY CURRENCY IS EQUALLY BOUGHT AND SOLD. However, noone says it must be bought and sold once!

 

 

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/8964/butterflyfm1.jpg

 

This was the first version of the butterfly hedge. The points are currencies. Among them O is mirrored (the two O represent the same currency). Features:

- the Z currency is bought 3 times (OZ, YZ, XZ) and sold 3 times (ZO, ZP, ZQ).

- the O currency is bought 3 times (PO, QO, ZO) and sold 3 times (OZ, OY, OX).

 

A better version of this hedge would be one without the needless ZO and OZ relationships and still the hedge would be a butterfly, since the "wings" could not work seperately.

 

Each model has a mirror. Just like any atom from Intercross Arbitrage could have played the role of bid or ask, similar any butterfly can be mirrorized simply by reversing the direction of the arrows.

 

This model doesn't look like a butterfly at all but it respects the same principles.

 

Looks like electronic circuitry huh?

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2331/rectanglehedgeoe2.jpg

(The double arrowed edges mean that volume , in account currency, is double than the one used on the other edges).

 

Now I don't say the butterfly hedges are necesarilly better than the currency rings. It may be worse in many situations, but tt's a different way of thinking hedge.

 

SwapButterfly's parameter list is similar to SwapFinder's. However, in the start(), you must assign UseModel to one of the preexistent models defined, or to a new one.

 

*TIP ABOUT BROKERS: If you find a swap hole in the broker's datafeed (meaning for one pair the cashed swap is bigger than the payed swap, don't just go long and short simultaneously, as this will alert the broker to repair the datafeed. Better place it as a ring or a butterfly, sure this opportunity will be included in the best provided solution).

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Hi,

 

I've run the SwapFinder_script on both demo and real account and it found a ring on the real but nothing on the demo! I've checked swap rates and the swap type (in points) on both accounts and they seem to be the same. Is there any reason why it shows different results for both accounts at the same broker?

 

Regards,

 

Michal

 

Hi Michal,

 

Well the script can't give different results but in two cases:

a) the swaps are a volatile type ;

b) swaps on demo are different from the ones on real.

Check with MarketInfo both accounts for MODE_SWAPLONG, MODE_SWAPSHORT and MODE_SWAPTYPE.

 

Regards,

Bogdan

 

P.S. Are you Michal Kreslik ?

Hi Bogdan,

 

the real account lists:

2008.09.07 13:32:00 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: CHFJPY SWAPLONG: 0.34 SWAPSHORT: -0.48 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:32:00 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: GBPCHF SWAPLONG: 1.55 SWAPSHORT: -1.96 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:32:00 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: EURGBP SWAPLONG: -0.19 SWAPSHORT: 0.13 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:32:00 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: EURAUD SWAPLONG: -1.45 SWAPSHORT: 1.13 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:32:00 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: AUDJPY SWAPLONG: 1.71 SWAPSHORT: -2.21 SWAPTYPE: 0

 

the demo account lists:

2008.09.07 13:35:39 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: CHFJPY SWAPLONG: 0.34 SWAPSHORT: -0.48 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:35:39 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: GBPCHF SWAPLONG: 1.55 SWAPSHORT: -1.96 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:35:39 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: EURGBP SWAPLONG: -0.19 SWAPSHORT: 0.13 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:35:39 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: EURAUD SWAPLONG: -1.45 SWAPSHORT: 1.13 SWAPTYPE: 0

2008.09.07 13:35:39 list_ring NZDJPY,M5: AUDJPY SWAPLONG: 1.71 SWAPSHORT: -2.21 SWAPTYPE: 0

 

So the are the same. But the ring can be found only on the real account. Is there anything in the script which can cause it? (balance, spreads, etc)

 

The ring is on the picture

http://www.mqlservice.net/ring.JPG

 

By the way, are you calculating the rings by minimal exposure? Would it be also possible to display on the final screen the resulting exposure? This will help to judge how good the ring is hedged.

 

I'm not Michal Kersik but another Michal. My full name is Michal Rutka and I'm mostly known from MQL Service which is my company. You can see what I'm doing by visiting my site at MQL Service link

 

Best regards,

 

Michal Rutka

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Hmm, very strange what you say here about the difference between real and demo. Thing is I never placed anything in the script to distinguish between demo and real. The only checkup function I used is just IsTradeAllowed(). Does it really roll thru all the combinations and displays that "Sorry, nothing found!" on demo?

The function that calculates a ring with all its stuff is EstablishRing(). Start() begins by calling ScanRings() which calls GetBestRing() to scan thru all possible combinations, and for each valid one calling EstablishRing() to create it. After this scan, ScanRings() calls again EstablishRing() to restore the best ring information (if found). Also, the GetBestRing() is programmed to save rings information in ringlist.txt (but in ringlist.txt only positive rings are saved, while on screen negative rings may appear, depending on the state of ShowNegatives parameter). This is the code area which might be of interest (not sure about, I may be pasting from an older version):

 

              if ((FinalROE>0)||(FinalROE<0&&ShowNegatives==True))
               {
                WriteLn(StringConcatenate(" Found ring with ROA=",DoubleToStr(ROA,4),"%  ROE=",DoubleToStr(ROE,4),"%  FinalROE=",DoubleToStr(FinalROE,4),"%"));
                if (FinalROE>0)
                   FileWrite(fhandle,StringConcatenate(Contracts[0]," ",Contracts[1]," ",Contracts[2]," ",StringElement(OrderType2Str(Ops[0]),0),
                      StringElement(OrderType2Str(Ops[1]),0),StringElement(OrderType2Str(Ops[2]),0)," ROA=",DoubleToStr(ROA,4),"%  ROE=",DoubleToStr(ROE,4),"%  FinalROE=",DoubleToStr(FinalROE,4),"%" ));
               }                 

 

I didn't understand what you meant by "are you calculating the rings by minimal exposure". Exposure, as I define it to be, "the unhedged part of the ring", is not a parameter, but a "feature" of the output ring. The core parameter is actually MarginUsage. The exposure itself doesn't appear listed, and by the looks of your rings it seems that broker is not supporting microlots, which means you have maximal 5000 units unhedged per each pair traded. If you can't figure it out , perhaps I could run a test on that broker's demo. Anyway, for just 29% ROE I wouldn't even take it into consideration, it would be about 2-3% monthly, would take 2 months to recover spreads...

 

Regards,

Bogdan

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If you can't figure it out , perhaps I could run a test on that broker's demo. Anyway, for just 29% ROE I wouldn't even take it into consideration, it would be about 2-3% monthly, would take 2 months to recover spreads...

The demo is from MIG (www.migfx.ch). You can check that the ring exist there and the find script does not find it on the demo (or I have some bogus one, but I think that I've donloaded the latest version). You know the code, so perhaps you can find the problem faster than me. Anyway, I'm not considering this ring to trade, but rather to find out why it is not showing consistent results between the real and demo. On the demo it comes with message 'sorry nothing found' while on real account there are plenty of rings.

 

Regards,

Michal

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I didn't understand what you meant by "are you calculating the rings by minimal exposure". Exposure, as I define it to be, "the unhedged part of the ring", is not a parameter, but a "feature" of the output ring. The core parameter is actually MarginUsage. The exposure itself doesn't appear listed, and by the looks of your rings it seems that broker is not supporting microlots, which means you have maximal 5000 units unhedged per each pair traded.

Regards,

Bogdan

Hi Bogdan,

 

an exposure is the result of not ideal hedging and the fact that you have only limited resolution in trading units. As you observed, in my example the minimum is 0.1 lot or 10000 units (or 1000000 in JPY). According to you this would give maximum 5000 units (500000 JPY) unhedged. I've written a small indicator to show actual exposure of the given ring and it seems to be larger than this:

http://www.mqlservice.net/i-exposure.gif

Especially JPY seems be almost 1500000 units unhedged, three times more than it should be. Selling one more microlot AUDJPY would decrease exposure but of course destroy the ring as AUDJPY is a high yielding pair. Here is the exposure after selling one more microlot AUDJPY:

http://www.mqlservice.net/i-exposure_sell_audjpy.gif

 

You can find the indicator I've written here i-Exposure.mq4

 

Regards,

 

Michal

 

P.S. I have a dumb question as it must be simple but I cannot find it. How can I subscribe to this blog in order to receive email messages when it is updated?

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This is my run of SwapFinder for MiG Investments Demo.

 

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9178/migringsrl5.jpg

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/migringsrl5.jpg/1/w955.png

 

Strangely, NZDJPY doesn't seem to appear in the list of contracts , because it was not detected as usable pair (!!) And indeed, BcLib's ContractIsTraded("NZDJPY") was returning False, while MarketInfo("NZDJPY",MODE_TRADEALLOWED) was returning True, but ContractIsTraded asnswered False because MarketInfo("NZDJPY",MODE_BID) returned 0!

I remember that long time ago when I made this script, and at that time I didn't had internet on my computer at work, but only on a pocketpc, my friends were reporting to me extra currencies displayed by the script in the list, which I wasn't getting as available at the time I was home. Think this ockward behaviour gives so strange results, however you told me there was NO solution reported for the demo, while at least I get a very bad one with a tiny ROE.

 

Regards,

Bogdan

 

P.S. About updates, you might get update mail if you become a member of the site.

P.S.2. I still have to think about the JPY hedge, but I'm moving out of country and will have less time...

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Vizitator Chris

Postat

This is my run of SwapFinder for MiG Investments Demo.

 

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9178/migringsrl5.jpg

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/migringsrl5.jpg/1/w955.png

 

Strangely, NZDJPY doesn't seem to appear in the list of contracts , because it was not detected as usable pair (!!) And indeed, BcLib's ContractIsTraded("NZDJPY") was returning False, while MarketInfo("NZDJPY",MODE_TRADEALLOWED) was returning True, but ContractIsTraded asnswered False because MarketInfo("NZDJPY",MODE_BID) returned 0!

I remember that long time ago when I made this script, and at that time I didn't had internet on my computer at work, but only on a pocketpc, my friends were reporting to me extra currencies displayed by the script in the list, which I wasn't getting as available at the time I was home. Think this ockward behaviour gives so strange results, however you told me there was NO solution reported for the demo, while at least I get a very bad one with a tiny ROE.

 

Regards,

Bogdan

 

P.S. About updates, you might get update mail if you become a member of the site.

P.S.2. I still have to think about the JPY hedge, but I'm moving out of country and will have less time...

 

MIG and ODL turn off quotes from their server 'outside market hours'. With MIG it's detectable with as you found TRADEALLOWED. With ODL they just stop sending quotes. The only way to know from code that the market is closed is to do a datediff on the currenttimw-time of last tick. This caught me out one day when i was arbing something else and I had one leg open on one broker and couldn't open the ODL side.

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Vizitator Fabio

Postat

AS of Oct 1 2008. They have changed the swap rates and this system no longer works.

 

Anyone know how to write an excel spreadsheet to find best trio pairs that uses OandaFX interest rates.

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Vizitator chrono

Postat

Hi Bogdan...

 

what do you think about an arbitrage swaps who generate 4,60 euro daily on a total ring position of 300.000 gbp and a spread to recover of 100 euro (it would be take about 22 days)?

 

Do it's too cheap to be doing?

 

Thx

 

Chrono

Link spre comentariu
Hi Bogdan...

 

what do you think about an arbitrage swaps who generate 4,60 euro daily on a total ring position of 300.000 gbp and a spread to recover of 100 euro (it would be take about 22 days)?

 

Do it's too cheap to be doing?

 

Thx

 

Chrono

 

So, given the current rate, the 300.000 gbp are about 352300 euros...

 

that means your tiny 4.60 euros daily are... 101.2 per 22 days, or about 0.0287% .

A year comprises 16.59 periods of 22 days, so if you compound the interest for 15.59 times ... 0.44% ROE per annum.

You think it's worth ? Cause I don't think so...

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Vizitator chrono

Postat

Hi Bogdan...

 

what do you think about an arbitrage swaps who generate 4,60 euro daily on a total ring position of 300.000 gbp and a spread to recover of 100 euro (it would be take about 22 days)?

 

Do it's too cheap to be doing?

 

Thx

 

Chrono

 

So, given the current rate, the 300.000 gbp are about 352300 euros...

 

that means your tiny 4.60 euros daily are... 101.2 per 22 days, or about 0.0287% .

A year comprises 16.59 periods of 22 days, so if you compound the interest for 15.59 times ... 0.44% ROE per annum.

You think it's worth ? Cause I don't think so...

 

Yes. ROE (without margination) is 0.44% per annum.

 

So I think it isn't worth.

 

I like to know what ROE % per annum (without margination) you consider good for swap arbitrage.

 

Thank.

 

Chrono.

Link spre comentariu
Hi Bogdan...

 

what do you think about an arbitrage swaps who generate 4,60 euro daily on a total ring position of 300.000 gbp and a spread to recover of 100 euro (it would be take about 22 days)?

 

Do it's too cheap to be doing?

 

Thx

 

Chrono

 

So, given the current rate, the 300.000 gbp are about 352300 euros...

 

that means your tiny 4.60 euros daily are... 101.2 per 22 days, or about 0.0287% .

A year comprises 16.59 periods of 22 days, so if you compound the interest for 15.59 times ... 0.44% ROE per annum.

You think it's worth ? Cause I don't think so...

 

Yes. ROE (without margination) is 0.44% per annum.

 

So I think it isn't worth.

 

I like to know what ROE % per annum (without margination) you consider good for swap arbitrage.

 

Thank.

 

Chrono.

 

No investment with a ROE under the riskless rate would ever be advisable by anyone. The riskless rate is achieved using government-issued bonds.

Since you probably wouldn't need that degree of safety, a higher bank interest of a few percent per annum would be enough, and it would be at least 5-6 times higher than the 0.44 . Would a 10% per annum satisfy you ? It depends on how much cash you can make compared to other income sources. The more poor you are the higher will be the indifference point. If you have just some cash that you spare from your income, you want probably more than 50%. If you have more cash, probably more than 25%. If you're a hedge fund manager, you'd thank God for 15%...

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Vizitator chrono

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Hi Bogdan...

 

what do you think about an arbitrage swaps who generate 4,60 euro daily on a total ring position of 300.000 gbp and a spread to recover of 100 euro (it would be take about 22 days)?

 

Do it's too cheap to be doing?

 

Thx

 

Chrono

 

So, given the current rate, the 300.000 gbp are about 352300 euros...

 

that means your tiny 4.60 euros daily are... 101.2 per 22 days, or about 0.0287% .

A year comprises 16.59 periods of 22 days, so if you compound the interest for 15.59 times ... 0.44% ROE per annum.

You think it's worth ? Cause I don't think so...

 

Yes. ROE (without margination) is 0.44% per annum.

 

So I think it isn't worth.

 

I like to know what ROE % per annum (without margination) you consider good for swap arbitrage.

 

Thank.

 

Chrono.

 

No investment with a ROE under the riskless rate would ever be advisable by anyone. The riskless rate is achieved using government-issued bonds.

Since you probably wouldn't need that degree of safety, a higher bank interest of a few percent per annum would be enough, and it would be at least 5-6 times higher than the 0.44 . Would a 10% per annum satisfy you ? It depends on how much cash you can make compared to other income sources. The more poor you are the higher will be the indifference point. If you have just some cash that you spare from your income, you want probably more than 50%. If you have more cash, probably more than 25%. If you're a hedge fund manager, you'd thank God for 15%...

 

Yes, you are right.

 

But my question was wich % ROE you consider to be low risk to manage a swap arbitrge with leverage 1:100?

 

In the case i posted, it's gains 44% per annum, but a so tiny swap maybe not during much.

If so then we'll not cover the spread or have a small gaining.

 

;-)

 

thanks

 

chrono

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Hi Bogdan...

 

what do you think about an arbitrage swaps who generate 4,60 euro daily on a total ring position of 300.000 gbp and a spread to recover of 100 euro (it would be take about 22 days)?

 

Do it's too cheap to be doing?

 

Thx

 

Chrono

 

So, given the current rate, the 300.000 gbp are about 352300 euros...

 

that means your tiny 4.60 euros daily are... 101.2 per 22 days, or about 0.0287% .

A year comprises 16.59 periods of 22 days, so if you compound the interest for 15.59 times ... 0.44% ROE per annum.

You think it's worth ? Cause I don't think so...

 

Yes. ROE (without margination) is 0.44% per annum.

 

So I think it isn't worth.

 

I like to know what ROE % per annum (without margination) you consider good for swap arbitrage.

 

Thank.

 

Chrono.

 

No investment with a ROE under the riskless rate would ever be advisable by anyone. The riskless rate is achieved using government-issued bonds.

Since you probably wouldn't need that degree of safety, a higher bank interest of a few percent per annum would be enough, and it would be at least 5-6 times higher than the 0.44 . Would a 10% per annum satisfy you ? It depends on how much cash you can make compared to other income sources. The more poor you are the higher will be the indifference point. If you have just some cash that you spare from your income, you want probably more than 50%. If you have more cash, probably more than 25%. If you're a hedge fund manager, you'd thank God for 15%...

 

Yes, you are right.

 

But my question was wich % ROE you consider to be low risk to manage a swap arbitrge with leverage 1:100?

 

In the case i posted, it's gains 44% per annum, but a so tiny swap maybe not during much.

If so then we'll not cover the spread or have a small gaining.

 

;-)

 

thanks

 

chrono

 

Actually 0.44% in this case can be called ROA (Return on Assets - not ROE - Return on Equity). The 0.0287% transforms in 2.870% for 22 days,

compounded for 15.59 times, it means...ROE of 55.44%

 

It's all in the number of days you need to wait for recovery. In this case it's 22 days. And with a some light bad luck, interest rates MAY shift in 22 days.

It's your call. If it would be 10 days, would be quite unlikely for a bad interest rate shift in 10 days, but, whatever the case, you should check daily for the interests.

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Vizitator geo

Postat

FETELOR FACETI BANI USOR SI SIGUR

 

Credeti-ma: am incercat toate metodele posibile (si legale). Aceasta este cea mai USOARA si mai RAPIDA cale. Poti sa faci o gramada de bani, repede si legal. Merge! E testat! Tot ce trebuie sa faci deocamdata este sa citesti cu atentie si pana la final textul.

 

Eram sceptica, totusi...

In urma cu ceva vreme navigam aiurea pe Internet (probabil la fel cum faci si tu acum) cand am descoperit un articol in care se spunea ca pot sa castig milioane in doar cateva saptamani cu o investitie initiala de numai 60.000 de lei vechi. Imediat m-am gandit [chestia asta trebuie sa fie vreo escrocherie]. Dar, curios fiind, am continuat sa citesc. Articolul spunea ca trebuie sa trimiti cate 10.000 de lei la fiecare din cele 6 adrese mentionate in articol. Apoi sa iti treci numele si adresa la sfarsitul listei in pozitia a 6-a si sa publici articolul la minim 200 de forum-uri/adrese cu anunturi pe Internet. Pur si simplu! Dupa ce am analizat chestiunea si dupa ce am discutat cu cativa prieteni m-am hotarat sa incerc. La urma urmei ce aveam de pierdut in afara de 60.000 de lei vechi si 6 timbre?

Cum este si normal, la inceput eram sceptic si chiar ingrijorat in privinta aspectului legal. Asa ca m-am interesat la PTTR si mi-au confirmat ca intr-adevar e legal! Deci am facut infima investitie de 60.000 de lei.(vechi adica 6 ron)

 

Surpriza!...

Ghiciti ce s-a petrecut !!! ... Intr-un interval de 7 zile am inceput sa primesc bani in cutia postala. Eram uluit! M-am gandit ca probabil se va opri curand, dar banii au continuat sa vina! In prima saptamana am primit 370.000 de lei. La sfarsitul celei de-a doua aveam 1.090.000. In a treia saptamana stransesem 25.470.000 de lei! Si banii continua sa vina cu repeziciune. In mod cert a meritat sa cheltui cei 60.000 de lei si cele 6 timbre (Am cheltuit mult mai mult jucand la loto si la bingo!). Sa va spun cum functioneaza si mai ales de ce functioneaza. In primul rand va sfatuiesc sa salvati pe hard sau sa printati articolul ca sa il aveti la indemana.

Cum?...

PASUL 1:

 

Iei 6 coli de hartie si scrii pe fiecare din ele : [M-AM ADAUGAT LA LISTA TA], apoi impaturesti fiecare coala (cat sa intre in plic). Acum iei 6 bancnote de 10.000 de lei si pui CATE UNA in FIECARE din cele 6 coli (ca sa nu se vada prin plic si sa nu se fure), apoi pui FIECARE coala in CATE UN PLIC si inchizi plicurile. Ar trebui sa ai acum 6 plicuri sigilate, cu numele si adresa ta pe ele (la expeditor), fiecare dintre ele continand o coala de hartie si o bancnota de 10.000 de lei. Acum trimiti plicurile la urmatoarele adrese:

 

1) Stan Catalin,str. Nanterre Nr.41 bl I 10 sc.2 ap 6 Craiova,Jud Dolj,cod 200491

2)Ciobanu Marius Ctin,iasi,str.profesor ioan simionescu nr 6,bl d1 et 4 ap 3 ,jud iasi

3)Cristea George localitatea Topolog jud. Tulcea

4)Manea Alexandra Raluca; Bucuresti str. Aleea Dobrina nr 6 bl.49C sc. A apt.25. sector 2.

5)Dumitru Aurel Alexandru;jud.Giurgiu;loc.Giurgiu;str.Tineretului;bl.206;sc.b;ap.20

6.Tomuta Teodora Viorela Str.Razboieni,Nr 66,Bloc T5,Ap.44,Oras Oradea,Judetul Bihor,cod 410571

PASUL 2:

Acum tai din lista pe numarul 1,numarul 1nu va mai exista in lista ta, si muti celelalte adrese cu o pozitie mai sus (6 devine 5, 5 devine 4,etc...). Astfel numarul 6 devine liber,astfel la numarul 6 completezi cu numele si adresa TA .Trebuie foarte clar sa intelegi ca DACA TE VEI PUNE IN ALTA POZITIE DECIT CEA DE-A 6-A, vei primi cu mult mai putini bani, pentru ca factorul de multiplicare se diminueaza. Pentru a intari increderea in joc, trebuie SA NU TRISEZI si SA TRIMITI PLICURILE, deoarece altminteri, te excluzi singur din circuit semanind neincrederea.

 

PASUL 3:

Schimba ce doresti dar, pe cat se poate, incearca sa mentii articolul cat mai aproape de original. Acum publica anuntul la cat mai multe forum-uri/newsgroup-uri(sunt o groaza). 200 este atat cat iti trebuie dar cu cat publici in mai multe locuri cu atat mai multi bani vei castiga! Nu e nevoie sa scrii din nou tot acest articol; poti sa selectezi textul cu cursorul mouse-ului si sa il copiezi in memoria calculatorului('Copy' din meniul 'Edit'); deschizi un fisier gol cu 'notepad'('File'...'New') si inserezi textul ca sa iti adaugi numele in pozitia a 6-a ('Edit'...'Paste'); salvezi fisierul cu extensia .txt. Acum cauti pe Internet newsgroup-uri (forum-uri on-line, message board-uri, site-uri de chat, de discutii) romanesti bineinteles, sau la diverse adrese e-mail pe care le cunosti si publici articolul. Va sugerez sa treceti ca subiect un titlu cat mai atractiv pentru ca acesta il vor vedea cei ce viziteaza aceste site-uri.GATA! Felicitari...

Nu ar trebui sa iti ia mai mult de 30 de secunde pentru fiecare newsgroup! TINE MINTE : MAI MULTE NEWSGROUP-URI INSEAMNA MAI MULTI BANI! TOT CE TREBUIE ESTE UN MINIM DE 200!

 

Calcule...

Vei incepe sa primesti bani in cutia postala in cateva zile! Daca vrei poti sa iti inchiriezi o casuta postala din cauza numarului mare de scrisori pe care le vei primi. De ce? Din cele MINIM 200 de publicari pe care le-am facut sa spunem ca primesc 5 raspunsuri (un exemplu FOARTE-FOARTE mic). Deci am castigat 50.000 de lei cu numele meu pe pozitia a 6- a. Acum fiecare din cele 5 persoane care tocmai mi-au trimis cate o scrisoare, publica la randul lor MINIMUL de 200 de articole cu numele meu pe pozitia a 5-a si primesc si ei cate 50.000 de lei.Eu primesc astfel 5*5*10.000 de lei = 250.000 de lei si tot asa mai departe....

Daca fiecare participant publica articolul de MINIM 200 de ori! Si totul cu o investitie initiala de 60.000 de lei si 6 timbre. Cand numele tau nu se mai afla in lista poti sa repeti procedura : iei ultima varianta a articolului si trimiti cate 10.000 de lei la adresele care se afla in lista, punandu-ti numele pe pozitia a 6-a. Acum publici articolul din nou de MINIM 200 de ori.

Va dati seama ca in fiecare zi mii de oameni intra pe Internet si citesc aceste articole ASA CUM CITESTI TU ACUM !! Asa ca iti poti permite 60.000 de lei sa vezi daca merge cu adevarat? Cred ca da... Unii au spus "dar daca lumea se satura si nu mai trimite nimeni nici un ban?" Ce sanse sunt sa se intample asta cand ZILNIC se alatura 20- 50.000 de useri noi la Internet dintre care foarte multi citesc astfel de anunturi si sunt dispusi sa incerce ?

JUCATI CINSTIT SI CORECT SI VETI AVEA NUMAI DE CASTIGAT!!

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Vizitator Goosmobehon

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Vizitator Caroline R Jablow<br />

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