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[01 martie 2015] Vamist este prima si cea mai mare comunitate Forex din Romania. A luat nastere in 2005 si de-a lungul timpului a trecut prin mai multe transformari. Acum, dupa 10 ani, primim orice fel de traderi si investitori. Deci, indiferent daca tranzactionezi sau investesti in actiuni, valute, marfuri sau orice alt instrument, bine ai venit!

Vamist se transforma in comunitatea traderilor retail. Aceasta versiune a forumului va fi in continuare accesibila pentru oricine, dar numai in format read only.

Noua adresa este vamist.ro. Te asteptam acolo la discutii generale despre trading.

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#1 CosminCSM

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:30 AM

Salut mi-as dori sa devin trader profesionist daca pot spune asa doar ca problema este ca e nu prea stiu nimic despre tranzactii.Daca este cineva pe aici care se pricepe la asa ceva va rog mult ajutati-ma!Pentru inceput trebuie sa invat sa folosesc programele acela de analiza si ce mai fac ele si apoi cred ca este ok dar nu prea stiu pe unde gasesc toti termenii aceia.


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#2 theSeer

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 07:21 AM

Trader-ul profesionist este tatic in organizarea activitatii de pregatire a tranzactionarii.

 

Cum traim in era internetului, toata munca pregatitoare incepe cu organizarea resurselor (link-uri) disponibile pe internet. Pentru asta mai intai si intai imi creez in browser-ul de internet (IE, Firefox, Chrome, etc, samd) in Bookmarks (Favorite) un folder numit Forex in care imi voi salva (meniul Bookmarks > Bookmark This Page) toate resursele pe care le consider utile, organizate pe categorii (sub-foldere ale folder-ului Forex).

 

PS. Cu titlu de exemplu, in folder-ul Forex din Bookmarks (Favorite) al browser-ului de internet,

 

- dupa ce imi creez subfolder-ul articole, salvez resursa (link-ul) urmatoare (urmator),

Mathematics in Trading: How to Estimate Trade Results : http://articles.mql4.com/471#6137

 

- dupa ce imi creez subfolder-ul cursuri, salvez resursa (link-ul) urmatoare (urmator),

School of Pipsology : http://www.babypips.com/school/

 

- dupa ce imi creez subfolder-ul management, salvez resursa (link-ul) urmatoare (urmator),

Trading Plan : http://forum.vamist....e-13#entry50542

 

- dupa ce imi creez subfolder-ul mql4, salvez resursa (link-ul) urmatoare (urmator),

MQL4 Technical Indicators and Built-In Functions : http://articles.mql4.com/466


Edited by theSeer, 11 August 2013 - 07:30 AM.

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#3 tavi_star

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:00 PM

Proprietary Trading Firms Vs. Retail Trading Brokers

 

Many newcomers to stock trading cannot tell the difference between a proprietary trading firm and an online (retail) broker. When deciding to open an account, traders make their comparison of brokers based on the relative cost and the products offered, but more often than not they fail to realize that the products are not exactly the same. This article seeks to shed light on the mechanics of a prop trading account and educate traders about the differences between the two options so that one can compare them more effectively.

The analysis has been provided in six key areas: software, rebates, fees, buying power, education and short locates (availability of hard to borrow securities). These are the areas in which the two are most distinctively different and are rightfully the most common factors considered in this decision. You as a trader will place a different emphasis on particular categories as you consider whether retail or prop is best for you.

 

Software

Retail - Retail brokers typically offer the ability to execute trades on their website. Most also offer their own trading platform at a monthly cost to the trader. This fee may be waived if you meet their minimum requirements for account assets.

Prop - A good prop firm will offer traders a choice between a few different direct access routing programs. A trader's platform provides the ability to execute and monitor transactions quickly and effectively. A proprietary platform will have direct connectivity to the exchange matching engine. Hot keys are also a must have for intraday traders and are a feature offered in proprietary software, but not often that of retail firms. Most proprietary trading platforms provide access to more in depth real-time market data such as NASDAQ's Totalview, ARCA Book, NYSE OpenBook, BATS and Direct Edge Books, although some of this data may come at an additional cost. Greater market depth and breadth can assist the trader in making better trading decisions on very active and heavily traded securities in real-time.

 

Rebates

Rebates refer to the compensation that ECNs provide to traders who add liquidity to the market. Most ECNs give rebates to traders who add liquidity and charge a slightly higher fee to traders who remove liquidity from their market center. This is a basic ECN business model, although there are a few ECNs that are structured differently.

Retail - In the vast majority of cases, retail firms do not pass on rebates to their traders. The online broker will most often route the flow to a low cost exclusive destination which does not cost extra and is not often directly to an exchange. If a retail trader chooses to route to a particular ECN, the additional fee on top of their flat commission rate may be passed through to the trader.

Prop - Traders who trade at a proprietary trading firm get the advantage of benefiting from the widely adopted "taker-maker" model that most exchanges offer. Traders who add liquidity will receive rebates for doing so in accordance with that exchange's rates (which can be as high as $3/1000 shares). This can be a substantial source of revenue for the prop trader and will also influence his/her decision of which route to use.

 

Fees

Retail - The fee structure for retail firms will vary from shop to shop and the industry is highly competitive. One firm may offer no account transfer fees while another may advertise no inactivity fees. Still another may not charge for wires, but they may make this up in their commission structure. In general, retail firms have a flat, per trade commission rate that is charged. There is also usually a software fee for the platform unless you meet certain minimum asset requirements or if you are a very active trader. Some other incidental fees that you may incur are those that have been mentioned above.

Prop - Proprietary trading firms are able to offer more competitive commission and transaction fees than the online broker. Proprietary firms typically use a per share structure with breakpoints for decreasing your commission as your volume increases. This is often a direct benefit to intraday traders who have a high number of trades per day.

All prop firms charge a software or desk fee which goes to pay for the data and order entry software that the firm uses. Some offer this software "at cost" to their traders and some charge a premium on top of their cost. The variety of routes offered directly affects the desk fee as well, so ask your prospective shop about the routes available when talking about desk fees. For some traders, more routes is more value added.

 

Day Trading Buying Power

Retail - In retail accounts, your buying power is THE LESSER OF the equity in your account divided by .30 (the 30% minimum global margin requirement for equities) OR your SMA multiplied by 2 (which satisfies the Regulation T requirements for equity purchases). For day traders, you must have at least $25,000 in equity in order to do more than three round trips (day trades) in a rolling five business day period (FINRA Rule 2520). Outside of this model, certain accounts may be eligible for portfolio margin.

Prop - With a prop firm, your buying power is determined by the firm you're with and the risk capital deposited. Some traders may be fully backed by a firm (true prop) in which case they can expect the firm to take a portion of profits to compensate for the risk taken. Many traders find trading prop more advantageous as they can trade a lot more capital that they would have access to in a retail account.

Day traders with less than $25,000 are prime clients of prop firms as they are able to trade freely without worrying about the minimum equity requirements enforced by FINRA Rule 2520. This is because most prop firms are set up so that traders trade sub accounts of the firm, but the firm "hits the street" as one large account.

 

Education

Retail - Many retail firms have educational information on their website. The breadth, depth and level of educational materials vary from firm to firm. The material is usually in the form of suggested reading, archived lessons and, occasionally, trading seminars.

Prop - Offerings for training in the prop field are highly sought after. Many traders who are beginning their trading careers look to prop firms with advertised training programs. Be cautious of firms that charge for educational classes and then provide firm capital for you to trade. Some of these firms are modeled to generate revenue from training which can cause a conflict of interest as their incentive to see traders last in the long run is greatly reduced. When a trader joins a prop firm and deposits risk capital, all compliant firms are required to hold your deposit for 12 months. Afterwards, the trader may receive his/her deposit back. In short, be aware that if a firm charges for training they may be trying to avoid the lock up period so they can treat it as revenue immediately.

 

Shorting/Locates

All traders, prop and retail, are subject to Regulation SHO which governs short selling in US markets. Traders must have located shares that they wish to borrow before selling short. Some stocks may be on the threshold list or "hard to borrow" list and may not be available. This list is updated every 24 hours.

Retail - If a retail trader would like to short a stock on the threshold list, there may be little that can be done to locate additional stock intraday and an opportunity may be missed.

Prop -Traders with a prop firm may submit locate requests before and during market hours in order to locate additional shares of stock on the threshold list.

 

As it happens, most traders begin trading in retail accounts due to their accessibility and pervasiveness in the investing community. Too many traders are unaware of the options available to them when it comes to cost structure, service and performance. It is my hope that this article will dispel some of the mystery and stigma from prop. Looking at these six areas, you can better determine if your style of trading is more suited for a prop account, or if you would be better off opening an account with a retail broker.

When choosing a firm in either category, research is paramount. Make sure your broker or trading desk has a sound reputation and make sure to ask the right questions. Talk to traders or read reviews on forums and trading websites. The better informed you are from the onset, the better your experience will be and the more comfortable you will be doing business with them.

 

For Proprietary Trading Firm reviews, news, rumors & opinions, visit Proprietary Trading


Edited by tavi_star, 11 August 2013 - 03:00 PM.

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Trading is hard and will only work after years and years of blood, sweat and tears!


#4 dirzuandreiovidiu

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:12 PM

Partea cu educatia pe care ti-o dau brokerii pe site-urile lor, mi-a atras atentia. Vreau sa mentionez ca nu am gasit un broker care sa aiba sectiunea educatie bine pusa la punct. E informatie trantita, parca creata doar pentru a umple un spatiu gol, din pacate. Daca stii vreun broker care ma poate contrazice, te rog sa imi trimiti un link, sa verific si eu.
 
Multam

Edited by Stefan, 11 August 2013 - 04:28 PM.
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#5 tavi_star

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:17 PM

200 Proprietary Trading Firms

Listing of Proprietary Trading Firms

 

-----------------------------

 

Cauta raspuns la intrebarile:

 

1. Ce produse tranzactioneaza?

2. Ce platforme de trading folosesc?

3. Ce metode de trading folosesc?

4. Capital minim pt. trading.

5. Cauta o firma care sa-ti ofere training (contra cost sau free).

 

-----------------------------

 

Sunt firme la care poti participa la traininguri (local sau remote) si sa inveti sistemul de trading proprietar al firmei.

 

Nu mai te chinui sa descoperi roata. Invata direct de la profesionisti.

 

Avantajele sunt enorme:

- costuri infinit mai mici decat ca la un retail broker (firmele sunt membri ai bursei si platesc comisioane de vreo 10 ori mai mici decat un broker de retail)

- ai un manager de risc mereu cu ochii pe tine

- esti inconjurat de traderi profesionisti cu zeci de ani de experienta si beneficiezi direct de experienta lor

- ai acces la fluxuri de news, analize si platforme de trading pe care nu ti le poti permite ca retail trader.

- cel mai important aspect: inveti cum functioneaza piata cu adevarat

 

Primul pas este sa ai un minim de cultura generala despre pietele financiare.

Cea mai buna resursa care exista:

 

Trading and Exchanges: Market Microstructure for Practitioners by Larry Harris (Chief Economist la SEC)

 

 

Enjoy the jouney!


Edited by tavi_star, 11 August 2013 - 03:12 PM.

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Trading is hard and will only work after years and years of blood, sweat and tears!


#6 tavi_star

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:40 PM

................

 

Partea cu educatia pe care ti-o dau brokerii pe site-urile lor, mi-a atras atentia. Vreau sa mentionez ca nu am gasit un broker care sa aiba sectiunea educatie bine pusa la punct. E informatie trantita, parca creata doar pentru a umple un spatiu gol, din pacate. Daca stii vreun broker care ma poate contrazice, te rog sa imi trimiti un link, sa verific si eu.

 

................

 
Brokerii sunt brokeri iar traderii sunt traderi.
Daca brokerii ar avea traderi (din aia care fac bani) nu ar mai fi firma de brokeraj ci firma de trading. :)

Edited by tavi_star, 11 August 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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Trading is hard and will only work after years and years of blood, sweat and tears!


#7 tavi_star

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:44 PM

 
We traders and active investors are a largely misperceived breed.

Our profession / discipline is also misunderstood.

Trading, whether that of Forex, Futures, Stocks, Bonds or Options, is usually viewed as gambling by the public.

It's seen as a way to get rich quick through luck. But there's so much more to it than meets the eye.

Legitimate daytraders, swing traders, and active investors are true masters of their craft, rising above human nature to churn out profits consistently from the market.

Just like great artists, athletes, and professionals train years to become proficient, so do great traders, honing their skills of analysis, risk control, and mental discipline to gain an edge in the markets.

While doing so they also benefit the economy by adding liquidity.

Despite this, the independent trader and investor is in an industry where his/her needs are unrecognized and unmet.

Our goal is to change that by addressing their needs like never before.


Edited by tavi_star, 11 August 2013 - 08:20 PM.

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Trading is hard and will only work after years and years of blood, sweat and tears!


#8 Barbones

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 01:49 PM

@Andrei, cum crezi tu ca poti beneficia de educatie din partea cuiva care are tot interesul ca tu sa pierzi?

 

De exemplu: Eu sunt Broker de retail. Cum castig eu bani? din spread?, din castigul traderului?

 

NU!!!!

 

Eu, Broker de retail pe FOREX!!!!, Castig din nestiinta traderului care isi joaca banii la mine si deci, cu alte cuvinte, imi lasa mie banii lui. 

 

In concluzie: tot ce vrea brokerul este ca tu sa pierzi si deci, iti pune la dispozitie informatii educative care te duc in aceasta directie.

Nu mai vorbesc de tehnologia oferita.

 

De ceva vreme avem in mt4 optiunea rapida de trade cu un clik. Crezi ca e benefica traderului sau brokerului? Clar brokerului, De ce? pentru ca nu mai poti inchide partial. Acum inchizi tot riscul inital, deci trebuie sa intri cu mai mult de un clik ca sa ai cum sa faci scalabilitate.

 

Nu mai zic ca in postul lui tavi_star aflam un adevar, o realitate pe care 100% din traderii de forex nu o stiu, ca expunerea este majora pe actiuni si nu pe forex, ca scolala la prop_firms se face cu scopul clar de a face profit unde firma este parte la expunere, este cea care are de castigat daca traderul castiga.

 

Concluzia? De unde ai capatat tu scolarizarea de pana acum? Sa nu-mi spui ca din propria experienta ca nu e bine. E clar ca ai luat si tu "hapul" cu indicatorii, mt4 ca platforma folosita manual, si toate sisteme de pe net care sunt "majoritar profitabile", doar ca, asa cum se spune in folclorul forexist, nu sistemul e prost, ci traderul nu a respectat regulile. Mai sa fie? pai daca sistemele astea minune fac bani, nu cumva cei 95% din traderi sunt tampiti? pentru ca nu reusesc sa inteleaga sistemul? Nu cred. Nu suntem atat de tampliti sa nu putem sa tinem cont de cateva reguli simple, cand cutare medie mobila face cutare, sau cutare semnal dat de vre-un indicator minune apare, si tot asa. Nu suntem noi tamipiti, ci suntem prostiti in fata si mai rau e ca nu vrem sa auzim ca asta este adevarul. Preferam sa "credem" in sansa noastra, banzadu-ne pe "ce zic unii si altii", pe ce scrie pe situri de specialitate, sa credem tot felul de prezicatori zisi " analisti financiari" care fac zilnic "analize" si chiar dau si intrari si iesiri dar care, daca ii cauti in google si le vezi istoricul si te uiti pe chart sa vezi in realitate daca au zis bine sau rau ai sa vezi ca pierd in nestire. Dar n-ai sa vezi niciodata un ":analist" care sa spuna ca in trade ul de ieri a pierdut. O sa taca malc si o sa puna alt post cu alt trade si tot asa.

 

Realitatea dura pusa aici te tavi_star nu e pe placul nimanui si deci, nimeni nu o crede. Avem incredere in schimb in promisiuni pozitive si EDUCATIE GRATUITA, in tot felul oameni pe care nu-i cunoastem, ascunsi in spatele monitorului ce n-au istoric verificabil. 

 

Bine, poti zice ca poti sa platesti pentru educatie, sa cumperi carti sau sa aplici la cursuri platite. Bun, dar nimeni nu-si pune intrebarea din ce castiga "acei profesori"? Nu cumva castiga din cursuri si nu din trade efectiv? 

 

De ce oare "profesorii" nu isi asuma nici-un risc? De ce?

Pentru ca afacerea lor este SCOALA si nu TRADE ul.

 

Asa ca, parerea mea umila este ca SINGURUL LOC unde intr-adevar poti invata ceva despre trade este acolo unde "scoala este parte la risc". 

 

 

PS. Am pun un link pe aici cu o scoala adevarata, nu frectii, o scoala care are ca scop, pe romaneste, sa creasca traderi si sa-i vanda. Crezi ca "cumparatorul" sau "piata de new traders" ar mai functiona daca cei care ies de la acea scoala ar fi neprofitabili?

sau crezi ca cei care conduc acele firme ce achiztioneaza traderi , adica hedge funds, sunt idioti si nu stiu sa evalueze un trader cand e vorba de bani la mijloc si nu orice suma?  
Acei traderi noi, proaspeti absolventi, au un istoric de minim 15 18 luni de trade real, cu cont real, cu istoric care dovedeste ca au trecut cu bine prin majoritatea situatiilor ce apar in piata au un dosar clar in care se spune de ce si motivul fiecarei tranzactii, unde nimic nu este lasat la intamplare. 


Edited by Barbones, 11 August 2013 - 02:04 PM.

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#9 dirzuandreiovidiu

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 02:03 PM

@Tudor

 

Brokerii, cel putin cei ce se preteaza a fi seriosi, castiga doar din spread. Ceilalti - e o alta poveste pe care nu o voi discuta aici. Stim bine ca brokerii isi imperecheaza ordinele si le trimit mai departe altor mari institutii care genereaza lichiditate in piata, bancilor, samd...Un broker nu pierde neaparat daca clientul face profit. Pierde doar cand nu are cum sa isi imperecheze ordinele. Si de multe ori cand nu poate imperechea ordinele iti da requote (n.a. eng. aproximativa. - atentionare ca nivelul dorit de intrare nu mai este disponibil din cauza fluctuatiei de moment).

 

Aparent, e un conflict de interese insa eu nu cred ca este. O firma serioasa si mare totodata ar putea stii cu siguranta cum sa faca acest management.

 

Si-atunci vin cu intrebarea: de ce sa nu oferi suport educativ pentru a atrage si mai multi clienti si pentru a deveni si mai profitabil?


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#10 Apollo

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 04:06 PM

Cand e NDD nu mai exista requote.


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"Imposibilul e un cuvant care se gaseste numai in dictionarul nãtângilor."

"Remember that if you practice strict money management rules, you will become the casino and in the long run, "you will always win."

 

"If you have ever watched one  of the nature programs  on television  about how many species of fish hunt, you may  have seen  the larger fish that create "bait balls"  by coralling  smaller fish into a tight group."

 

Money moves the market, not an indicator.





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